September 12, 2001 at 11:03 pm #44669
So, here’s an interesting question. Should the towers be rebuilt?
Should they be bigger and better than ever?
Telling the terrorists that we can’t be disuaded. OTOH, should we build a smaller, less-targetible trade center.
Should either be in the same place or relocated, possibly to another city / state?
What making the sight into a memorial? (Unlikely due to Manhattan realestate demand.)
Well, what do you say?
Here’s a little tension-breaking humor that someone said on the net… Sorry I didn’t get the name (I’m also quoting from memory, so it may not be completely accurate.)
"We should build 3 towers, with the one in the middle significantly taller than the other two, so as to make it look like giving the terrorists the finger."September 13, 2001 at 12:30 am #65233
This is completely impractical at first glance and that I am not architecturally minded doesn’t help either, but during the Gulf Conflict, we installed reactive applicate armor on the amphibious personnel carriers and tanks. The Merkava, Israel’s main battle tank, has a different version we called "dingle balls". The balls would explode if hit with any sort of object traveling at a specified force, thus redirecting and minimizing damage.
The reactive applicate armor is very similar and is attached to the vehicles in blocks that attach with nuts and bolts. If impacted, they explode on contact, redirecting and somewhat neutralizing the incoming device.
If this concept could be marketed (if it is not already) and sold to the construction or security industries, perhaps tragedies like we are suffering could be lessened and the bite might be taken out of the bad dogs.September 13, 2001 at 12:40 am #65234
The only precedence I can think of that’s been set was OK City. We built a memorial, not another Federal Building. We have more to memorialize here.September 13, 2001 at 2:44 am #65235
That’s an interesting concept, Halfman. I don’t know how feasible it is, but still pretty cool. There are two concerns that come to mind about it…
1. Would it be able to effectively redirect the impact of such an enormous object, travelling at such a high velocity, such is a 767?
2. In such a densely populated area as Manhattan, will the solution cause more damage than the problem? All that burning debris would fall onto the other buildings and streets below.
My idea builds on the fact that the original buildings survived the impact quite well. It was the fires that weakened the structure that caused the eventual collapse. So, I think that the new buildings should be able to catch and hold the planes, much like the original buildings, but also be equiped with a powerful anti-fire system. Even if it couldn’t put out such an intense blaze, it may be capable of keeping it under a certain temperature threshold. The grim fact is that, when a plane rams into a building, people are going to die. The focus is try to minimalize the casualties… If the WTC buildings hadn’t collapsed from the fire, they likely could’ve been saved and a lot less people would’ve had to die.
As to ELJ’s post. Like I said, a memorial park of some sort is very unlikely. Manhatten is about as prime as realestate gets, I’m fairly certain that was not the case in OK. also, if my facts are correct, the WTC towers comprised about 10% of the island’s office space. In any case, I’ve heard rumors that Juliani has said that the towers will be rebuilt. No comfirmation of any kind though, so take it w/ a grain of salt…
Some sort of memorial within the new buildings would most certainly be called for though. I’d even say an entire floor in each building. Some sort of garden and/or museum.September 13, 2001 at 3:04 am #65236
Impracticality,as we have seen, goes beyond dollars and cents. I do believe the redirection can be achieved. The tank armor was designed to impede sabot rounds from enemy tanks. These rounds travel at the velocity of aprox 1 mile per second. Usually, if a round penetrates the cupola or troop center of the tanks, the effects are fire damage, incrediible suction, and of course a hunk of steel bouncing around like s superball. Not very pretty. I would think they could make larger pieces of this armor to accomdate a large object.
As you said, Mattman, the fallout would be hard to control. Perhaps the armor, upon impact, could immediately deliver a high-concentration of water and or Tyoe "C" extinguishing fluid until, let’s say electric heat sensors, detect a drop in temperature and shut off. Of course, the operative idea is to keep in mind a minimization of casualties.
As far as the memorials, there is no shortage of places to have one. You cannot put a construct that serves the purposes this one did in just anyplace. I could list some considerations but I would never leave this thread. I like the mini-memorials idea.September 13, 2001 at 5:32 am #65237
Hey Halfman, my concern about the reative armor’s ability to effectively redirect a jumbo jet still stands. It’s an entirely different scenerio. Although the sabot rounds have a considerably higher velocity, they don’t have anywhere near the enormous mass of a 767. That much metal travelling aroung 600mph does not like to change directions. [img]images/smiles/converted/eek.gif[/img]
Still an interesting concept though, and I must admit, I’m no architect either…September 13, 2001 at 8:15 pm #65238
Simply put, memorials are a waste of space.September 13, 2001 at 8:27 pm #65239
Correction:hateful people are a waste of space.September 13, 2001 at 9:26 pm #65240
<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by salamiguy:
<STRONG>Correction:hateful people are a waste of space.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Point salamiguy!September 14, 2001 at 1:59 am #65241
Rebuild? Who would go to work there? Go for the memorial or some other structure that is for public consumption.September 14, 2001 at 5:51 am #65242
<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dfkgurl:
<STRONG>Rebuild? Who would go to work there? Go for the memorial or some other structure that is for public consumption.</STRONG><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, considering it’d probably take a decade or so to rebuild them, the sense of danger will likely be long gone after that time.September 14, 2001 at 10:40 am #65243
I think both could be accomplished without to much problem. Seems like more than a few buildings will be gone once the smoke clears, plenty of room to have a decent sized memorial garden or something like a wall of names alongside the garden. No doubt some of the companies that own the land could be pressured by the city and public to donate a piece of land…not huge but enuf to accomodate some sort of memorial.
I also think they should rebuild the towers, not a replica of the past though something new and a lot less of a kingsize target.
AllisonSeptember 17, 2001 at 3:10 pm #65244
i think they should build one almost like a pyramid, whith levels and all, make bigger stronger and have anti aircraft guns on top and all, i was devestated by this, i saw the towers topple over and lost and lost a few friends in this, Right now i think its time to kick some Arab assSeptember 17, 2001 at 3:43 pm #65245
Hey El Jesus,
Thought of you shortly after the explosions, knew you lived somewhere in the vicinity. So sorry about your loss of friends in the WTC collapse. Agree with you on the kick some ass deal, had kinda wished the operation would be named kick some terrorist ass. Heres hoping the ass kicking is accurate,swift and with minimal losses of innocent people.
Malcom I agree with you about the rebuilding of the towers and prime time real estate in NY but feel some small sacrifice needs to be made to honor the over 5000 innocent lives lost at the site. Again I am not talking about a huge memorial, just a small garden site with some sort of indication of the magnitude of the loss. I think the people deserve a stand alone type memorial versus part of a building, just my opinion thou.
AllisonSeptember 17, 2001 at 3:54 pm #65246
they should have a memorial on top of the building or dedicate each floor to like 50 dead or missing
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