presidential stuff

[OriginalPosterLost]

well by now everyone knows whats going on with the election, i just kind of curious about the opinions of people on the matter and who people voted for.

I myself voted for Al Gore, and i hope he takes florida

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"You look down at me and see a fool, you look up at me and see your lord, you look at me and see yourself"
Charles Manson

[OriginalPosterLost]

I voted for Gore too. I’m getting pretty doubtfull that he is going to pull it off though…

I’m curious about other areas. Nader was not even on the ballot in NC. Did any one else notice this in other areas?

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jeremiah
Administrator
Sold my soul and all I got was this lousy T-shirt…

[OriginalPosterLost]

Well, this is a potentially flammable topic, but I’ll participate, despite the possible consequences. I voted for Bush. I would like to say I voted my conscience and voted Libertarian , the only party whose platform I agree with more than a little (nearly 100%) but I, like many others, do not want to "waste" my vote, so I did not. And since Democrats (the politicians, not the good folks who vote for them), with their barely-hidden socialist agenda, are as far from Libertarians as night is from day and Republicans are (not much, but enough) less "Gestapo", I choose the lesser of what I percieve to be two evils. The Libertarian platform which says anything that does not harm another individual or infringe upon his or her rights should be legal, period, rings as true to me as the golden rule. Non-violent drug offenders should be released from prison and all banned substances should be un-banned, and any victimless-crime laws should be stricken from the lawbooks – drug use, certain sexual acts between consenting adults (of any gender), suicide, whatever. Each human’s business is his or her own as long as it doesn’t adversly effect another person. Anyone interested in these ideals should read any book at all by the great Ayn Rand (Anthem is very short and expresses perfectly the world we’re currently headed for). I’ll step down from the soapbox now, let the flame-war begin…but I’m not going to be dragged down into any cat fights. These are my opinions. Lots of people have unsuccessfully tried to convert me to both the extreme left and the extreme right, to no avail… Harry Brown is ten times more intelligent and thoughtful than either Bush or Gore.

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[email protected] [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/earl.gif[/img]

[OriginalPosterLost]

This is getting crazy..!

Gore has the popular vote / Bush stands a very good chance of taking the electoral…
I’d like to clear it up now that the law says that whoever takes the electoral win, wins the race, so its doubtful that anyone would be able do take the victory from Bush should the this situation play out…

However things could change future elections regarding the electoral. According to CNN many people are calling for Gore to be the victor based soley on the popular vote, all of these people I’ve seen so far are Gore supporters (this is not unexpected.)

What one must separate is how much of this outcry is sincere concern for the sake of the system vs. "my guy (might not / didn’t) win, change the rules so that he does!"

I urge people to be wary of the main stream media. CNN just did an interview of six people, 3 in a salon in Chicago, and 3 in a Cafe in LA. All of these people were Gore supporters and not a single Bush supporter was interviewed. I find this to be a terrible bias, as I have often found the main stream media to be. I only ask that everyone take caution of what they hear…

I’d also like to point out that the Electorial College is an absolute and brilliant nessecity. It is not completely based on state population. In this it allows smaller states to play an important part in presidential elections. If the election were to be based soley on popular vote, candidates would only need to campain to large population areas, and possibly help to create policy that would only benefit these large population areas. The current election is a very clear example of this. If one looks on any of the national maps the many news broadcasts are showing, Bush has won over a great deal more physical real estate than Gore, who has won fewer states, but that have a higher electorial value. Would you want a few large cities to have a control of what the rest of the country has follow??? These policies are not archaic, they were well thought out and nessecary.

Does the Electoral College need reform regarding situations like the present??? Perhaps… Does the Electoral College need to be eliminated? Not if you want our country to remain free!

This is just my take on the situation, I want you all to realize that these conclusions have come after a great deal of careful thought…

And yes I did vote for Bush…

Mattman

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"If you can’t pay money… At least pay attention!" – My Dad

[This message has been edited by Mattman (edited November 08, 2000).]

[OriginalPosterLost]

I have to say that I agree with Mattman on the issue of the blatant left bias in the media. For years – until I discovered the simple beauty of Libertarianism [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] – I was a staunch Republican. Not as part of the "Religious Right" or anything, but simply because of what I felt was a more intelligent approach to social and economic issues. You cannot take what airs on network television at face value, EVER. Fox News Network, the only evenly balanced, conscientiously un-biased network there is, is the only possible exception.

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[email protected] [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/earl.gif[/img]

[OriginalPosterLost]

question for all you guys? why do all you yanks get so caught up in all this political stuff? In australia they are playing all this U.S political shit on tv and none of us really give a shit, so please enlighten me.
p.s: not trying to sound like an ass so be nice!

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"its better than a kick in the face with a golf shoe"

[OriginalPosterLost]

I mean this in the nicest way possible: Because we care about the future of our country! The alternative (not caring) literally puts our freedoms and rights in jeopardy. Being "Fat, dumb, and happy" is exactly the way tyrants want to keep their people. The United States is not immune, and will fall eventually as Rome once did if we don’t stop being apathetic.

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[email protected] [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/earl.gif[/img]

[OriginalPosterLost]

This is getting sick!

The Democratic people are pulling every trick out of there hats to get Florida for Gore. In fact, and I still can’t believe I’m saying this, Gore seems to be the only member of the Democratic party who’s showing any amount of class at all…

What are your opinions of these possibly confusing ballots in Palm Beach county?

Here’s mine:

It has been explained in perfect detail that there were people availible to assist anyone who was having trouble with the ballots. Not only that, sample ballots were distributed before the election and the format was agreed upon by all parties.

When I voted, I TRIPLE checked my ballot to make sure I didn’t make any mistakes. Of coarse we used a different system here in Leon county (yes, I live in Tallahassee, FL. I’m in the center of the city, that’s in the center of the nations focus…) [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

As for the (so called) *thousands* of people in Palm Beach who marked the ballot twice and didn’t think it’d get thrown out… Well, to be nice, they’re greatly mistaken…

In any case, how can they fix this… They have no proof as the who did and did not intend to vote for Buchannen (sp) and they can’t just give them to Gore. You can’t even tell who’s ballot belongs who because we don’t sign the ballots, they’re anonymous… And a re-pole is absolutly absurd…

I beg you all! If they let the Palm Beach people vote again… Stand up and demand your right to change your mind after the fact…

~Matt, packing up a lot of dirt and starting his own island…

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"If you can’t pay money… At least pay attention!" – My Dad

[This message has been edited by Mattman (edited November 09, 2000).]

[OriginalPosterLost]

I voted for neither Bush nor Gore, but I think it is unfair to imply that the recount in Florida is some kind of tactic by the Gore camp to increase his odds. Everyone knew this would be a close race; aside from walk-in results in Florida & Washington hanging in the balance, each state also has 900,000-plus outstanding absentee ballots that have yet to be counted. My understanding is that the recount was ordered by federal officials, not a result of pressure from either camp. Of course, either camp could win the election by obtaining the Florida Electorals, but ultimately, in a race this close, there would be a lot of pissed of people on either side if the votes were not accurately counted.

Of course the media is biased, though I respectfully disagree with the notion that is always a liberal bias. (I think it is largely to their credit that any of us will hesitate to name our daughters Monica.) And I have a hunch that CNN chose to broadcast the interviews with those six Gore supporters because, as the ballots are recounted & more votes come in for Gore, his predicament is the exciting issue of the moment. News stations across the country continually project a winner then retract their projections, as the ballot count fluctuates. I think that since Bush made himself very accessible last night, people– especially Gore backers– are anxious for a little dose of Gore. I saw lots of reporters in Austin last night but only one guy in an empty park in Nashville.

I respect everyone’s opinions & I hope I don’t draw heat for voicing mine, as well! Democracy gives us all room to disagree as we so choose, which is probably why we rarely resort to throwing rocks at each other.

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[This message has been edited by rosa (edited November 09, 2000).]

[OriginalPosterLost]

You misunderstand, I’m not refering to the recount, that is mandatory by state law…

I’m talking about the contraversy in Palm Beach county of which a supposed 19,000 ballots were thrown out because they *supposedly* were confusing (It looks very clear to me)and caused people to mark both Gore and Buchanan on them. (I didn’t think that 19,000 people could be that blind…)

It’s started a huge chain reaction of Gore supporters claiming that they *think* that they may have made a mistake.

Like I said, any one qualified to vote should relize that if you punch multiple candidates for the same office, that ballot will be thrown out. On the same note, if you make a mistake as obvious as this, there are people at the precinct to replace the erronious form. But, once the ballot is placed in the machine it, by law, is final…

Also, Buchanan got a much larger amount of votes in Palm Beach than most other counties in Florida. The Democratic party, in there arrogance, is claiming that there is no way that Buchanan could have received so many votes. However, back in ’96, that same county had a uniquely high amount of votes for Ross Perot. This leads one to believe that there is a strong reform party community there… It’s impossible to tell for sure whether these votes for Buchanan were maid in error or deliberately…

The Democratic party is calling to allow the county to invalidate the votes in that county and allow the residents to vote again. This must not happen because it gives the residents of the county an unfare chance to change there minds… Nader voters, for instance, could change their votes to Gore. The Ballots themselves are anonymous, so its impossible to locate, only, the people who had invalid ballots…

The only way the re-poll would be even remotely fair would be for the entire election, country-wide, to be thrown out and redone. But, that would be catastrophic itself…

The Democratic Party is pissed because they lost and are willing to break the rules to ensure a victory.

The ballots were approved well in advanced, they should have caught any confusing aspects long before the election began.

One vote per person, no more…

On another topic, this lead for Gore in the popular vote is by much less than 1% of the total votes cast. That’s well within expected error… Its probably much closer than it appears…

~Matt, running for emperor in 2004!

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"If you can’t pay money… At least pay attention!" – My Dad

[OriginalPosterLost]

Have to count me in on the anti-media party…they make tons of ridiculous mistakes barely blink about it then take the high moral road when discussing what candidates should or should not do….god. I am really tired of the media spinning stories…they feed on themselves not the real news. It makes me want to PUKE & CRY!!!
Being Canadian this election effects me in a more global sense ie economy, trade etc and having taken in a lot of the election crap (debates, interview, comparisons of platforms) over the last while I cannot believe the Shrub (ie little bush) is this close..wow.

We are dealing with elections currently, few more bad choices to deal with but same old crap. Speaking of CRAP, one of our more ridiculous parties actually used the acronym CRAP (canadian reform alliance party) for a couple of days. Changed it after they were humiliated in a huge way….unbelievable who made that decision…The CRAP party sounds like something out of Beavis & Butthead.
You guys are not alone in the world of ridiculous political crap. But I do agree with you hager people have to take part and make informed choices that work best for them, apathy is a quick way to get nowhere fast!!!!!

Allison

I YAM WHAT I YAM AND THATS ALL THAT I YAM…
POPEYE THE SAILOR MAN

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[OriginalPosterLost]

Matt, I agree with a lot of your points. It really is kind of lame that the legibility of the ballot should come into question ex post facto rather than sooner. But for what it’s worth, I saw a copy of the one in question today, and it really does resemble a game of Jenga as opposed to a ballot. I heard that even within Florida there are different ballots that are used?? Every state should use a similar form, in my humble opinion.

I do think that if a few people can re-vote, we should all be able to re-vote. The idea of our election process is that every person is equal in that we each have one vote. If some people get a second vote, I’d like one, too. I’ll still vote the same as I did, though.

One final thing to think about, for those of you who are so aggressively anti-media–without the media Jeremiah would not be able to maintain this website and we would not be able to view it, much less engage in this dialogue.

Of course the media screw up & stuff us full of crap from time to time, but I take comfort in my ability to objectively process what is put in front of me. I could have lived without the O.J. and the JonBenet and all that but I also am glad that I was able to watch the election results come in, and that I can watch Conan before I go to bed every night. No matter what channels you use to get your information, you have a brain to filter the barrage and you have fingers to turn off the tv. In matters like this I choose to "take the bad with the good", or the sensationalism with the facts, and make my own decisions about what’s going on. I would rather have good food and bad food than no food at all.

Really no hard feelings; just putting in my 2c before bedtime.

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[OriginalPosterLost]

So, Rosa, how is the leftist bias in the media in any way tied to the freedom of information on the web? It’s not! I think that if your views are on the same side of "center" that the media’s are, it’s difficult to detect the bias. I know that I always thought Foxnews was the only unbiased network, but I now know that they are actually bias a little to the right, which I find refreshing if not proper.
We are not talking anti-media here anyway. We are talking anti-media-bias. It is a known fact, i.e. many polls have been taken, that 99.7% of the people in the US TV, radio, and print media are Democrats, so it is not paranoid to speculate that they are biased, just a statement of fact.
These people are pushing cadidates in our faces who support the government unconstitutionally clamping down on our freedoms. Adolph Hitler would have loved to have had the power of the CNNs, ABC’s, etc on his side when he was rising to power.

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[email protected] [img]http://www.freakscene.net/ubb/smilies/earl.gif[/img]

[OriginalPosterLost]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hager:
It is a known fact, i.e. many polls have been taken, that 99.7% of the people in the US TV, radio, and print media are Democrats, so it is not paranoid to speculate that they are biased, just a statement of fact.
These people are pushing cadidates in our faces who support the government unconstitutionally clamping down on our freedoms. Adolph Hitler would have loved to have had the power of the CNNs, ABC’s, etc on his side when he was rising to power.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I always thought that most media was more bias to the right. Could you post some links to these poll results that show that 99.7% of the people in media are Democrats? I’d like to see those as I have never heard that…

thanks,
Mickey

[OriginalPosterLost]

Hey Rosa,

I appreciate your 2 cents but feel the need to clarify my point. I am in no way in support of limiting the media in any way. I agree that people can use their grey matter to sift thru the mess and choose what they believe and go from there. My problem is that in The Race for the Prize ie the almighty ratings the accuracy and integrity of the news has lost out in a big way (gotta love when you can use a Flaming Lips reference to try and make a point). I agree with Hager there is a bias in the media but my main concern is with the spin they create which ends up like a feeding frenzy. The news making the news not reporting it objectively is a problem…..hard to distinguish at times between news shows and trash entertainment shows.

You cited some examples like OJ and Jon Benet, there have been many other examples I am sure you are aware of…Columbine & over in the UK there was a series of articles pointing out pedaphiles in communities…they were wrong and people got hurt. There has to be a point where the media takes responsibility for what they report and I don’t mean small back page retractions but make some serious changes in how they check their sources. Those were serious mistakes made on election nite by all the media and they pretty much went oh well and kept going. There is talk about changes for the next election…..have we not heard this before….do I believe it..no. I feel it is time for actions to speak louder than their empty promises. I do remain somewhat optimistic that people can change but again The Race for the Prize seems to be the ultimate goal not truth, accuracy and the news.

Allison

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