Home Forums General Discussions Open Topic Is the U.S. Supreme Court very far?

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    Apparently, the bipartisan legislative alliance is knocking on U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft’s door about jailing users and owners of file swap services.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020810/music_nm/music_copyright_dc _1

    Incidentally, I was in our school’s library 2 weeks ago to download some educational software for a project. All my downloaded files were set to default into a Kazaa file on our school’s hard drive via whoever the last user was. I was working with a older female classmate and when we went to go get the files for our zip drives, surprise, the Kazaa folder had several hundred kiddy porn, bondage bestiality movies ready to go for my viewing pleasure. Funny thing is my classmate kept opening them up….. World is fucked up, please let me off now.

    <small>[ 08-10-2002, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Half-Man ]</small>


    buckingham rabbit

    Diane Feinstein sucks.

    I love the part in Steven Soderbergh’s movie ‘Schizopolis’ where an aid tells him (I forget what the character is supposed to be, but its played by Soderbergh) that "Senator Feinstein" has sent a letter or an invitation or something. Then he says something like "send him a thank you note".



    Now, Half-Man. Would that be ‘bondage bestiality’ as in ‘bondage AND bestiality’, or ‘bondage / bestiality.’ Because that’s a really important distinction.




    What the RIAA and U.S. Dept. of Justice fail to understand is that once Kazaa, et.al. are shut down, someone will put up another server.. Somewhere.. Russia, Cayman Islands, etc.. And word will spread amongst the internet, and we will still have the file sharing capability.. <img>
    There is someone who is developing a P2P file sharing program that does not require a server. You install the client, and select users who you want to share files with. Imagine that, we could have an entrie freakscene ring. <img> I wish I could remember the name, though.

    I wish there was a way for those of us who have CRAPPY local radio stations (Los Angeles is bad, especially when 88.9 is about a 20 watt station, and KROQ 106.7 does not play indie as much as I would like) to write public officials and explain how they use the digital music swapping services. I am sure I am not the only one who use this process:

    1) Ask Freaksceners what they listen to <img>
    2) Find those songs on some swapping service
    3) Find out info on the band on the web, looking for similar style bands (Surprisingly, bn.com has good info). Repeat steps two and three..
    4) Write down the bands who I really enjoy and go buy the CD.

    If it was not for that process, bands like Versus, 11th Dream Day, Dashboard Confessionals, and Death Cab for Cutie would not be on my list of CD’s to BUY..

    There concludes my rant… FWIW


    (EDIT) p.s. No, the U.S. Supreme Court may not be far away. However, it will take the people who run these systems to appeal the decisions that far, and so far they not have been willing, or do not have the resource$$$$$. So, upon further review, it may never make it that far. The Federal District Judges seem to doing a good job shutting down the services. <img> <img> <img> <img>

    <small>[ 08-12-2002, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Carl. ]</small>



    I think the RIAA are *@#^&*# swine, jailing and prosecuting individual users…like the court and justice department have nothing better to do. You think they would be a bit more imaginative and start working toward something that would satisfy the needs of peer to peer fileshare users…ie real pay to play/burn/own songs not just shadow songs that you have to pay for over and over again… <img>

    Followed a link on that site, read how the riaa is looking for royalties from used cd sales… <img> <img> Apparently getting paid once for the disc isn’t good enuf for them, they want more, six percent if I recall correctly. Loved the part about how we don’t really own what we buy just rent it… <img> I certainly pay a lot to rent music… <img>

    Halfman I think the RIAA is looking for (or received) permission to hack into peoples computers looking for illegal files, they may be putting bogus files up for people to download… <img> Shocking no doubt to open those files, was recently hijacked myself to some absolutely horrifying sites. Was supposed to be a link for robot/monster ecards…not the case, led to all kinds of porn windows opening up on my pc…YIKES.

    Carl. you are absolutely on the mark about how file sharing has effected my disc buying…more and more all the time. Although some are difficult to find where I am…or is that because record companies actually are still focusing on the crap manufactured sounds versus <img> real music!!!


    <small>[ 08-11-2002, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Valentine Frankenstein ]</small>



    Why IS the government so interested in shutting this down? What’s in it for them? Are they really sitting in the pocket of the music industry? Because I find that hard to believe. I thought it was all big accounting firms, energy (oil, electric, etc), and guns.

    You know? Like Allison said, why spend so much time on this one issue when there are larger concerns at hand? Does the recording industry really constitute a significant percentage of political supporters? Or do the feds hope that cracking down on file-sharing will be a first step toward regulating other online enterprises?

    off to hobby hour,

    <small>[ 08-11-2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: rosa ]</small>



    </font><blockquote><font>quote:</font><hr><font>Originally posted by rosa:
    <strong>Why IS the government so interested in shutting this down? What’s in it for them? Are they really sitting in the pocket of the music business? Because I find that hard to believe. I thought it was all big accounting firms, oil, electric, and guns.

    You know? Like Allison said, why spend so much time on this one issue when there are larger concerns at hand? Does the recording industry really constitute a significant percentage of political support? Or do the feds hope that cracking down on file-sharing will be a first step toward regulating other online enterprises?

    rosa</strong></font><hr></blockquote><font>Money. $$$. The all american Green Back. Look at the companies that are part of the RIAA. They do have the politicians ear. CD sales have fallen in the last 5 years, and the RIAA is blaming it all on music swapping, rather than the actual cause (IMO), which is CRAPPY manufactured music. Is it me or does godsmack sound like AIC, and the Linkin Parks, Limp Bizcits, etc.. all sound the FREAKING same.

    The RIAA wants to make sure that they are part of the sharing. Charging monthly fees for downloads, etc.. They feel they are missing out on a large chunk of $$.

    I do not think the Feds are in this to regulate online enterprises, but the RIAA has made the case that digital sharing violates copyright laws, which makes it a federal issue.

    Maybe it is time to revisit the copyright laws?




    It seems like copyrights have been bent, ignored, abused, and manipulated for ages. VHS tapes, for example; computer software, NBA merchandise. People were bootlegging Grateful Dead concerts from the 1960s on out.

    I’m not saying it’s right or wrong. I just wonder why the government is deciding to intervene now. It can’t simply be because computers are so prolific, because everyone has a VCR, and people were never arrested for that.

    As far as which companies have the politicians’ ear, perhaps you could enlighten me; I haven’t really heard anything about Universal or WEA or BMI holding any kind of political clout. Please share; you seem to have a better sense of the politics than I <img>




    The RIAA is more of a political organization than anything else. It is comprised of 5 or different music companies, which in turn give money to the RIAA, who then lobbies politicians, et.al. Universal, WEA, BMI, etc.. as individual companies do not have a lot of clout, but as a group it is a whole different story..

    I am also going to post the following link in the Cool Web Sites area… Boycott-RIAA. It seems to have some good info on what the RIAA is and what it does.




    There has been some talk on organizing a grass roots collective. I died off on my end of it due to time restrictions and not enough support. I have been trying to keep up with a very powerful political action committee you are probably familiar with, the Electronic Frontier Foundation .

    Things have been pretty quiet lately since a bill to lock anti-copying devices into most media hardware died in committee on Capitol Hill. EFF has more on this and so do a few other FS members who pulled my coat to it. If you want to chat more my AIM is halfman1775 and the best email is [email protected]


    <small>[ 08-11-2002, 10:33 PM: Message edited by: Half-Man ]</small>



    I didn’t stop to check on all the ties and convolutions. Don’t let that interfere with hobby hour, though. <img>




    hi folks, I wouldn’t get too excited about stories like this—it’s a lot of political posturing for the most part. whoever said RIAA is basically a lobbying organization is right on, they just run around trying to get attention for their cause but the Justice department is probably not all that interested in criminal prosecutions of song swappers. Justice has to pay some attention to the RIAA since they have money to spend on campaign funding and that, but it doesn’t really jump up and down every time RIAA says jump. a lot of people who work at Justice would probably agree with the folks on this board that the whole idea of criminal prosecution of song swappers is stupid, waste of time, bad policy, another will just spring up, etc.

    without going into detail, due to the work I do and some of the jobs I have held in the past, I think Justice has other priorities such as keeping foreign terrorists from infiltrating our air traffic controls and our defense networks. going after Kazaa users or whatever in a criminal prosecution would be small potatoes and hard to make succeed, although some idiot local AUSA or FBI might eventually try I don’t think Justice would be the first ones to go after these folks. the statutes they would have to use are very hard to apply to individual users. (of course there is a concern that Congress would pass tougher statutes.) as for the Supreme Court this issue probably isn’t even close to getting there for a long time. at this point it’s a legislative and policy issue basically, and the RIAA would probably like to have Dept of Justice on its side, but this will only happen if a lot of other things first happen (like tougher statutes get passed, DOJ gets the resources to pursue criminal prosecution etc.) since all this takes time, RIAA publishing this story is just trying to get everyone’s attention in a lobbyist sort of way.

    if anyone is interested in these sorts of issues, my friend runs a good group on live journal (you don’t have to be a member of LJ to read the group). it’s at http://www.livejournal.com/community/antiriaa and people post articles, links and intelligent discussion on a regular basis.


    Long Distance Drunk

    Oh man, I usually get pretty hot about issues like this, but I’ll attempt to be brief:

    On the Supreme Court: Total crap. Seven of the nine always vote the party line. Four Republicans, three Democrats. I feel that the 2 party system will eventually be this country’s undoing. I mean, the Courts are supposed to be ABOVE that.

    On the Justice Dept: Again, total crap. Ashcroft is SO unyieldingly "conservative" he lost an election to a dead guy. Before 9/11, his main concern was busting medicial marijuana clubs sanctioned by state law.

    RIAA: THEY WANT $$$ FOR USED CDS???!?!? You have got to be kidding me. Its all about money and control. And people wonder why Sleater-Kinney didn’t sign with a major…

    I’d better stop now. The FBI surely has my name on a list already…



    Actually Rust Belt Blues, I can see where you would hold that view that the S Ct votes a "party line" but it’s a bit of an oversimplistic view of the dynamics of the Court. Although they get it wrong sometimes, I don’t think their decisions are "Total crap" and in fact they do a good job of staying OUT of a lot of the stupid politicking making them as a whole one of the more thoughtful and intelligent institutions around Washington in my humble opinion. it pains me that more people don’t take the time to understand what the Court really does or get to know its job a little better and instead have ideas about it mostly based in the media presentation of it, which 95% of the time IS total crap. and O’Connor does not always vote conservative, she’s the swing vote and likes balancing tests. I’ll shaddap now, anyone who is really interested in the S Ct should turn off the TV and either go to a good law school or read a good book or two on the dynamics of the place. "The Brethren" and "Closed Chambers" are okay places to start, but they’re biased—in particular "Brethren" emphasizes the political aspects of the Court probably more than it should. my personal view is that the Court is influenced by 1) stare decisis 2) economics of enforcement and 3) politics as a third thing, fitting in with 1 and 2.



    1) RBB, you are right about the two party system ruining America. The parties are more interested in their own gain than anything to do with the people. In a sense we are literally ruled by corporations. So vote third party, show them whose boss by flushing your vote down the drain! <img> <img>

    2) What confuses me most is: How can the US Government have jurisdiction over the WORLD WIDE web?? This is really weird when you think about it. I mean look at this website alone. We’ve got Americans, Netherlanders, Belgians, Norwigian, and Limeys all talking to one another. And this is, all things told, a rather small website. How can the government have any power over a site as big as Kazaa or Yahoo?

    3) I thought Morpheous and Kazaa were immune to this shit. I thought there was some setup where every computer was its own server or something? I’m not a techhead, obviously, but it seems to make sense.

    And I wanted to take this moment to say "thanks" to everybody out their. It’s discussions like this that make me fall in love with this bbs. And nobody’s called anything "gay" for months. <img>

    <small>[ 08-12-2002, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: Malcomtent ]</small>

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