Combining Fuzz and overdrive pedals

[YvesHertoghs]

Hey,

first post here! I am currently setting up a Dinosaur Tribute Band in Belgium. I have most of the gear i need, including a Jazzmaster, a US and Russian Big Muff, phasers/delay/tremelo, all with a voodoo labs switching system. This goes into a Hughes and Kettner Triamp, where i use amps 1A (fender-ish), amp 1B (voc ac30-ish) and amp 2A (marshall-ish). Now, the fuzzes alone dont cut Jay's tone. For rhythm you cant dime the muffs, certainly because Jay is using a lot of arpeggio style chords (think Out There). Also as seen at his current pedal board, neither the super fuzz or the bigg muff are dimed. For lead, setting the muffs to 10 works, but i am still missing something. Again from looking at his pedal board, he is probably using a combination of pedals for both rhythm as well as lead. He is using a double Hot Cake (now replaced apparently by a double zvex box of rock) and also an analogman King of Tone. So I think he is using a combination of overdrive (not dimed) and fuzz (not dimed) to get his sound.


My questions would be:

1. Does this make sense?
2. What would be the order ? I would think fuzz (not dimed, just enough gain to add character) into Overdrive.

thanks for any insights.

Yves

[hotmessization]

Overdrive into the Big Muff. The settings take some tweaking in order to not get massive feedback, but when you get it just right, it's a beautiful thing.

Also, try rolling back on the volume of your guitar for rhythm and then bring it up for lead.

And pickup switching is a really important part.

Watch this video of "Feel The Pain"
YouTube Link

Notice for the verses, he uses the neck pickup, then switches to the bridge pickup for leads, then back to the neck pickup.

I hope this helps you find what you're missing.

[Matthoney]

I'm not a technical guru or anything, but I would have to imagine that a lot of his natural gain/drive comes from the sheer volume they play at. Further, I know that he at one point used to have an OCD overdrive that was on for the entire show. That could be a missing link, perhaps?

[tonas]

I think you're right Matthoney, a lot of J's tone live comes from ear crushing volume along with a vintage big muff. I know the Marshall's are used to get the volume but he typically has a tweed Victoria amp that is the real source of his tone. This amp usually sits on his side and he uses it like a monitor during the shows.

There is a great thread about it here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13922

[YvesHertoghs]

Overdrive into the Big Muff. The settings take some tweaking in order to not get massive feedback, but when you get it just right, it's a beautiful thing.

Also, try rolling back on the volume of your guitar for rhythm and then bring it up for lead.

And pickup switching is a really important part.



Notice for the verses, he uses the neck pickup, then switches to the bridge pickup for leads, then back to the neck pickup.

I hope this helps you find what you're missing.

OK, thanks for that, i'll try the overdrive into Big Muff idea. I probably have to replicate that two times, one for lead, one for rhythm, but that's not a problem with the switching system i've got. It does involve two overdrives extra on the board, but hey Any recommendations on overdrive ? I'm sorta leaning towards either a blues driver, a tube screamer, or a zvex box of rock.

I saw some old rig layouts (e.g. the one on guitargeek) where it seems that all the fuzzes went into one or two pre-amps (which probably gave the overdrive), but would seem to indicate fuzz into OD, thats what is puzzling me. Unless of course the pre-amps and fuzzes are all wired up into a switching system, and then you can get any order you want really. Unfortunately my switching system doesnt allow to change the order, being the voodoolab's Pedal Switcher with the Commander.

On the volume comment: obviously volume always helps. It helps to achieve power amp and speaker distortion, which probably can be seen as yet two additional gain/distortion stages, beyond the two or three Jay is already using.

Pickup switching/volume roll off are things i am already using!

Keep it coming guys, all good ideas!

Yves

[hotmessization]

In my opinion, the Blues Driver is a tone sucker (I am not a fan of most Boss pedals for this reason). Tube Screamers are awesome, but if you're leaning towards one of those, I think you ought to go with a Voodoo Lab Sparkle Drive instead. Obviously the Box of Rock is just a killer pedal.

I have a Sparkle Drive in my setup, and I personally don't want another overdrive.

[Yeah Right]

I do this with a big muff and an Ibanez tube screamer. As hotmessization said, you'll have to fine tune it but the effects can be devastating.

[YvesHertoghs]

OK, Here is a short update on the ultimate quest for Jay-Like-Tone

I bought an Ibanez TS-7, which is essentially a TS-9 in a different housing. Killer pedal, and not too expensive. I plan to mod it to TS-808 specs later, just changing two resistors. I now use this with gain set between 3-4, tone to 7-9, and level to unity gain. This goes into a Russian Big-Muff with the gain at 1 (yes 1!), and the tone around 8 or 9, then into a clean tube-amp, fender style. This IS the Jay rhythm tone, i kid you not. The Tube Screamer rolls of some lows and gives a mid boost, together with some compression. The Big-Muf adds erghh...the typical Big Muff grunge and highs. I can play open-string chords, arpeggios, i get awesome definition and articulation, but still get the shizzle and distortion needed. Unbelieveable.

Then for power chords I use the same TS-7 into another Bigg-Muff (American), gain set between 4 and 5, and tone around 5-7. This looses some defintion but is perfect for the hard riffing stuff like start choppin and the likes.

For lead i use all three pedals at once TS-7-->USSR BM-->US BM. Singing Leads for hours.

I also use the TS-7 alone, for just a little bit of crunch. Before the TS-7 I also have a Fuzz Factory for 'crazy parts'.

All of this goes into a voodoo pedal-switcher with commander, to limit the tapdancing

Hope this helps anyone.

Yves

[tonas]

Also don't forget that J has a custom pedal that cuts the volume/output of his rig in half for rythm parts. I'm sure that pedal alone accounts for a large part of his tone.

[Dereck Johnsen]

Jeah, I think switching between your pickups is one of the options. But I olso think that J.'s sound is always a litlle bit mellow and sparkley, you always hear what he's playing. Try to build it up from the cleanest sound that you can reach with your amp. The amp must be so clean that it sounds borring and you want to use pedals to spice it up. Ill do it this way and I have always one or 2 pedals on. It gives me the perfect J. Mascis sound!

Good luck with you Dino Tribute band! I live in Holland if your playing in Holland or close to the border I'm comming to a show of yours!!!

greets Dereck

[YvesHertoghs]

Jeah, I think switching between your pickups is one of the options. But I olso think that J.'s sound is always a litlle bit mellow and sparkley, you always hear what he's playing. Try to build it up from the cleanest sound that you can reach with your amp. The amp must be so clean that it sounds borring and you want to use pedals to spice it up. Ill do it this way and I have always one or 2 pedals on. It gives me the perfect J. Mascis sound!

Good luck with you Dino Tribute band! I live in Holland if your playing in Holland or close to the border I'm comming to a show of yours!!!

greets Dereck

Cool! I surely will post here if/when we play. By the way, the idea is to call the band "Die Now, Sore Senior"

Yves